The Case for Ending Negotiated Rulemaking

Interesting article. Must read.

Island Free Press (http://www.islandfreepress.org/2008Archives/08.25.2008-GuestColumnScienceAndTheConsentDecree.html)

The hard part is nobody wants to be the first to abandon NegReg.

The hard part is nobody wants to be the first to abandon NegReg.

Allow me to be the 1st. ;-)

I would have to say that DOW and the Audobon Society were the first to abandon the process and rather than work it out (reg neg) they sued in Federal Court. Not only did they ram thier agenda thru with no opposition from the department of the Interior the federal judge ( Terrence Boyle) did not require the proper scientific studies to back up thier claims.

I would have to say that DOW and the Audobon Society were the first to abandon the process and rather than work it out (reg neg) they sued in Federal Court. Not only did they ram thier agenda thru with no opposition from the department of the Interior the federal judge ( Terrence Boyle) did not require the proper scientific studies to back up thier claims.

All true, but what I mean is formally abandoning the the neg-reg process. If we were to do that, the anti's would use it against us in a heartbeat. They seem to be comfy with hypocrisy....l

You are right . So until it is determined to be a dead horse we should continue to participate. Not like what they are doing by delaying the reports ect to give them time to screw things up further.

Allow me to be the 1st. ;-)

So what is your next step? Allow DOW, SELC, and autoban to write the plan?

Sue them in Judge Boyles court?

DOI has already endorsed the Consent decree.

Not tring to be snippy, but I'm curious to hear your plan.

"When in doubt, poke it with a stick" That's my plan. I'm not sure what to do. I do know that the OBPA has not been very effective and now it appears that the people that claim to defend beach access would settle for the "interim plan".

How about a push to change the endangered species act. That would eliminate the root of the problem. How about abolishing the fish and wildlife service. Where, in the constitution, does it say that the government can establish a fish and wildlife service?

If you leave, you had a chance to participate and didn't. Implications????

If you stay, you participated and have little recourse. Implications????

If they disband, you are right where you would have been from the start with full recourse.

Good points Jim. I would say that the reg neg process needs to continue no matter what. I feel the senate and house bills will not go anywhere anytime soon. It was shown in the hearings on the bill that the DOI is very much in FAVOR of keeping the access closed.
I feel the entire arguement can be attacked based on the non scientific data used to support the DOI/Audobon arguement coupled withthe fact there was no peer review of ANY of the work.

"When in doubt, poke it with a stick" That's my plan. I'm not sure what to do. I do know that the OBPA has not been very effective and now it appears that the people that claim to defend beach access would settle for the "interim plan".

How about a push to change the endangered species act. That would eliminate the root of the problem. How about abolishing the fish and wildlife service. Where, in the constitution, does it say that the government can establish a fish and wildlife service?

Poking it with a stick = "Hold my beer and watch this" That ain't a plan. If you're not sure what to do, sit down and shut up.

OBPA has been as effective as any other organization involved, as far as I know. If you have a better alternative, let's hear it. I'll send them money and donate my time for them as well.

I agree about the Endangered Species Act, but how long do you think that will take? How many enemies do we gain by taking that on as opposed to what we have with simply beach access? I just want to be on the beach, I don't want or need to fight the folks trying to save some snail that only lives in Cracker Creel, AK. Just imagine the spin (lies): "Beach access advocates push for repeal of Endangered Species Act"

Bottom line is, what are you doing to help?

DOI has already endorsed the Consent decree.

So has " our side" and "our side" said they agreed to the consent degree because they feared the other option worse,so

now,we want "do overs" ? Seems to me what we've got is the ultimate merry go round waiting for the first "jumper".

I keep asking one question that no one seems to be willing to try and answer and that is,

If the consent decree was agreed to,and Judge Boyle issued a ruling in Federal Court,how do you get that Federal ruling changed without appealing it to a higher court ?

And this question has already been asked also,

If you didn't like it why did you agree to it ?

And you can forget about those two bills because they can't even get any cosponsors outside of NC and Va.They'll never get out of committee,especially with left wing Dems controlling both the House and Senate after November.

Mass confusion. :confused:

My understanding is the consent decree is in force until we get through the neg-reg process (or not), then the merry-go-round spins even faster when assorted parties don't like the results and go to court.

As OFH said, perhaps the Endangered Species Act is the way to go, but that's looong term solution.

9/3/08

I received a telephone message today from Senator Burr's Office. I was not aware of the message prior to the meeting at the Community Center. The contact was from Margaret, an Assistant in Senator Burr's Office. She can be reached at telephone # 202-228-2960. She was responding to my inquiry as to the status of the Bill.

She indicated that Senator Burr is hoping he can bring the bill up for "tentative mark up" on Thursday (9/11) in the Energy Committee. Senator Burr will try to move the Bill forward out of Committee to the Senate Floor at that time. If it does not come out of Committee on Thursday 9/11, it will not be addressed again until the next Congress convenes. I assume this will be sometimes in 2008 after the elections. TIME IS OF ESSENCE! "


These are the senators on the committee- Burr of NC has already cosponsored the bill with Senator Dole- if you know of someone in these other states that can contact - call or fax - one of these senators please forward this information onto them - you have a WEEK to make a difference!

PLEASE CALL AND LET A STAFF MEMBER KNOW THAT WE NEED THEIR SUPPORT OF THE BILL 3113 TO RETURN THE MANAGEMENT OF THE CAPE HATTERAS PARK TO THE NPS



Committee Membership
Majority Members (Democrats)
Member Name DC Phone DC FAX Email
Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) [Chair] 202-224-5521 202-224-2852 http://bingaman.senate.gov/contact/types/email-issue.cfm
Daniel K. Akaka (D-HI) 202-224-6361 202-224-2126 http://akaka.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home
Byron L. Dorgan (D-ND) 202-224-2551 202-224-1193 senator@dorgan.senate.gov
Ron Wyden (D-OR) 202-224-5244 202-228-2717 http://wyden.senate.gov/contact/
Tim Johnson (D-SD) 202-224-5842 202-228-5765 http://johnson.senate.gov/contact/
Mary Landrieu (D-LA) 202-224-5824 202-224-9735 http://landrieu.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm
Maria Cantwell (D-WA) 202-224-3441 202-228-0514 http://cantwell.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm
Ken Salazar (D-CO) 202-224-5852 202-228-5036 http://salazar.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm
Robert Menendez (D-NJ) 202-224-4744 202-228-2197 http://menendez.senate.gov/contact/contact.cfm
Blanche Lambert Lincoln (D-AR) 202-224-4843 202-228-1371 http://lincoln.senate.gov/webform.html
Bernie Sanders (I-VT) 202-224-5141 202-228-0776 http://www.sanders.senate.gov/comments/
Jon Tester (D-MT) 202-224-2644 202-224-8594 http://tester.senate.gov/Contact/index.cfm

Minority Members (Republicans)
Member Name DC Phone DC FAX Email
Pete V. Domenici (R-NM) [Ranking Member] 202-224-6621 202-228-3261 http://domenici.senate.gov/contact/contactform.cfm
Larry E. Craig (R-ID) 202-224-2752 202-228-1067 http://craig.senate.gov/webform.cfm
Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) 202-224-6665 202-224-5301 http://murkowski.senate.gov/contact.cfm
Richard Burr (R-NC) 202-224-3154 202-228-2981 http://burr.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home
James DeMint (R-SC) 202-224-6121 202-228-5143 http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home
Bob Corker (R-TN) 202-224-3344 202-228-0566 http://corker.senate.gov/Contact/index.cfm
John A. Barrasso (R-WY) 202-224-6441 202-224-1724 http://barrasso.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?
FuseAction=ContactUs.ContactForm
Jeff Sessions (R-AL) 202-224-4124 202-224-3149 http://sessions.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ConstituentServices.ContactMe
Gordon Smith (R-OR) 202-224-3753 202-228-3997 http://gsmith.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home
Jim Bunning (R-KY) 202-224-4343 202-228-1373 http://bunning.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?
FuseAction=Contact.ContactForm
Mel Martinez (R-FL) 202-224-3041 202-228-5171 http://martinez.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?
FuseAction=ContactInformation.ContactForm

So has " our side"
If you didn't like it why did you agree to it ?



If we lose any access, we will look back at that as the turning point. If going back to the interim plan is our side's greatest hope, they are not very good negotiators. There is no way that the other side is going to accept anything less than the Consent Decree. The pro-access folks might as well put something on the table that we can be proud of. Open everything up, including Pea Island. !!!